Vacated, Reinstated — How New York Took Back a Man’s Freedom: The Story of Baby Sam

For more than 33 years, Samuel “Baby Sam” Edmondson lived inside a conviction the courts would later acknowledge was broken.

In 2022, a Brooklyn Supreme Court judge vacated that conviction after finding unreliable witnesses, suppressed evidence, and investigative misconduct tied to NYPD Detective Louis Scarcella. Baby Sam walked free and began rebuilding his life.

Three years later, the State of New York reinstated part of that same conviction — without a new trial — sending him back to prison.

In this exclusive interview, Baby Sam speaks in his own words about:

• Having his conviction vacated after three decades
• What the court acknowledged about his case
• Living free, then being ordered back into custody
• The role of police misconduct and prosecutorial decisions
• Why he believes the system is still refusing full accountability

This conversation is not about mythology or headlines.

It is about due process, state power, and what happens when the justice system reverses its own admission of error.

👉🏾 Read the full reporting:

The Gutter Report: Vacated, Reinstated — How New York Took Back a Man’s Freedom

👉🏾 Take action:

Sign the petition calling for accountability and transparency

Not for clicks — for clarity.

— Elliott Carterr, LFTG Radio

📱 TikTok: @elliott_carterr

📺 YouTube: @lftgradio

🌐 Website: LFTGRadio.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Framing The Story And Stakes
• 1:08 Calling From Green Haven
• 2:24 Prison Conditions After Three Years Out
• 2:58 Origins And Media Mythmaking
• 3:25 Brownsville In The Late Eighties
• 4:41 College, Loss, And A Life Diverted
• 6:20 Enterprise Corruption And A Scripted Narrative
• 7:20 Witness Lies And A Rigged Trial Atmosphere
• 8:26 Detective Scarcella’s Role
• 10:13 Convicted By Media Before Trial
• 11:13 The Impounded Getaway Car
• 13:47 Suppressed Grand Jury Lies
• 16:06 Buried Eyewitness Misidentification
• 18:53 Fabricated Reports And False Certainty
• 21:16 Recantations The Jury Never Heard
• 22:21 Inside Whistleblower And Witness Tampering
• 24:14 Facing Death In Prison And Holding Faith
• 26:43 What Thirty Years Inside Does To Hope
• 28:08 The Day The Conviction Was Vacated
• 29:25 Freedom, Grief, And Family First
• 31:05 Rebuilding Life And Purpose
• 31:48 The Reinstated Conviction Shock
• 33:44 Appeals, Partial Reinstatement, No New Trial
• 36:22 Appellate Overreach And Credibility Findings
• 38:58 What Crack Era Cases Reveal
• 41:30 How Many Are Still Inside
• 42:04 A Message To The Brooklyn DA
• 43:14 Cohorts: Police And Prosecutors
• 44:49 Petition Support And Public Pressure
• 46:23 Accountability And Transparency Demands
• 47:19 Guidance For The Youth
• 49:30 Closing Appeal And Call To Action

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Good morning, Godspeed. It's Elliot Carter reporting live from the gutter. And today we're having a conversation the system never wanted the public to hear. For over 33 years, Samuel Baby Sam Edison sat in a prison cell on a conviction built on lies, suppressed evidence, fabricated police work, and witnesses who later admitted they were they weren't telling the truth. In 2022, a Brooklyn judge vacated that conviction. The system admitted what he'd been saying for decades. The trial wasn't fair. For three years, Baby Sam lived as a free man again, rebuilding his life, reconnecting with his family, and becoming a part of a community that welcomed him home. But in 2025, the state of New York reached back and took that freedom away. Today's interview is not about guilt, innocence, or street legends. It's about truth, due process, and what happens when the justice system refuses to correct its own mistakes. This is Samuel Edmondson's story in his own words. Let's begin. Baby Sam, where are you calling from right now?

SPEAKER_00: 1:08

I'm calling from Green Haven Correctional Facility.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12

And how are the conditions in there? What's going on with you in there?

SPEAKER_00: 1:18

Well, everything is okay with me uh under the circumstances of being my conviction being reinstated. Uh it's it's not the same as as I left it though, three years ago, uh prison changed dramatically.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37

How so?

SPEAKER_00: 1:39

Um just with the uh the guards, the inmates, um things that that been happening in the system or why I was gone, it's it it just changed and it got and it got worse. It just it just got worse. You know, it's it's like the the lack of staff, you know, it's not enough staff, and uh the caliber of prisoners uh are not the same, you know. Uh when I when I when I first started m uh my did out.

SPEAKER_01: 2:15

Yeah, no, I understand completely. Let's get into your case and the and the origins, the man before the myth. Before the newspapers and before the courtroom, who was Samuel Edmondson growing up in Brownsville?

SPEAKER_00: 2:33

Okay. Okay, I want to say this, right? First of all, uh I was born Sam Edmondson, but the media, the media needed a villain, so they changed my name to Samuel, baby Sam Edmondson. So it could sound like more sinister, like Vincent the Chin or like uh Sam the Brook of I know, you know, but my mother and father uh never married and they were from the South and when when you're not married in in in the south and you name after your father, you're either baby Sam or little Sam. You're not a junior. So I was named after my father, so I was considered baby Sam.

SPEAKER_01: 3:19

Okay, gotcha, gotcha. What did the late eighties feel like from inside the community, not through the headlines?

unknown: 3:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 3:33

Okay, let me see. Let me try to give you uh paint a picture for you. Okay. Uh okay. It felt like from from inside it looked like Ukraine. Except Russia wasn't dropping bombs on the US. The US was dropping bombs on its own citizens. You know, like cracking like a bomb, you know, um jobs disappeared. Um police showed up um not to help but to arrest and NYC, New York was like, you know, it was like a battlefield, you know. Um uh where where kids growing up, you know, had to to adapt and survive.

SPEAKER_01: 4:31

Yeah, definitely. When the media labeled you a kingpin, what parts of your real story did they leave out?

SPEAKER_00: 4:41

Okay. Initially, I had tried to enlist in the military twice. Once in the Marines and later in the army, but to no avail. Um, I later became a student at uh the University of Peru College.

SPEAKER_01: 5:03

Okay, nice. And what did you study there?

SPEAKER_00: 5:07

Business administration.

SPEAKER_01: 5:09

And how did that end for you? How did you end up, you know, changing your path?

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

What happened was um I lost my brother in eighty six and that was like my s that was my older brother, and that was my second brother in less than a year. And I I I r I remember and I try to keep it keep it straight even after his death. I I I still continue to go to school, but you know, I I I found myself, you know, um uh uh struggling with that. You know, struggling with the fact that I lost two brothers, struggling with with the fact that we still in the project, and I didn't want to lose another brother. So, you know, I wanted I wanted to remove my my my my mom from from from the project. So I remember one day um coming back from school, taking my books and throwing them on a train track just before the train comes. So I knew that once I did that because those were used books that I bought. So I knew that once I didn't have those books no more, I knew I wasn't coming back. So I dropped out of college.

SPEAKER_01: 6:19

Yeah. I understand the the methodology behind that. When you first heard the charges against you back in nineteen eighty-eight through nineteen ninety, did the state story match the reality that you lived?

SPEAKER_00: 6:37

No, absolutely not. I mean, cause that was the first time I ever heard of enterprise corruption, you know, and I was at my trial, and then they had a chart at my trial with titles like Lieutenant Overseer, Controller, Commander in Chief, Chief of Security, and so forth. Names that I I never even heard before, uh uh uh not alone heard anyone else identify their self as that. So uh no, it it it it it didn't. It c it caught it it it caught me totally of God.

SPEAKER_01: 7:15

Yeah, they just created their own structure.

SPEAKER_02: 7:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:20

How did it feel watching witnesses take the stand knowing their stories didn't match the truth?

SPEAKER_00: 7:28

Wow. That that was that was uh well I felt helpless. You know, like like I was watching uh uh a bad episode of Law and Order. Except uh the people that took the oath to uphold the law was now breaking the law. So I I had to I had to sit there and listen to these witnesses. Some witnesses I never even met before, you know, tell these stories and these lies that the uh the the prosecution police set them.

SPEAKER_01: 8:05

Yeah, that's that's a common theme that I'm hearing on this podcast and in law enforcement and corruption, you know, just them coercing witnesses and you know getting them to tell lies on the stand just for another conviction.

SPEAKER_00: 8:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 8:26

What do you remember about Detective Louis Scarsella's place in your case or the atmosphere surrounding him?

SPEAKER_00: 8:36

What do I remember about Scarsella? Well what I remember about Scarsella was uh uh a very arrogant person. Uh uh self-centered, um even not sadistic, you know. Um that was my first impression of him, you know, when when when when so when I met him, you know. And um so it's a lot that I didn't know about him until later on it started coming out like years later. But when I did hear it, it didn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_01: 9:24

Yeah. Did you have much interaction with him?

SPEAKER_00: 9:30

Yeah, yeah. He uh um he he arrested me. He was my arresting he was he he he was my arresting officer, you know. Uh which is which is funny because he said that he didn't have anything to do with my case and when asked did he arrest me, he said he don't recall and he said black and white that he arrested me.

SPEAKER_01: 10:02

Yeah, of course. Did you feel like your conviction was decided before your trial even began? And why?

SPEAKER_00: 10:13

Yeah, uh I think I think I was uh I think I was I was I was convicted long before I w I went to trial by by by the media, you know, relationship with with the public and by the uh the the DA office and the police relationship with the media. You know, so um um so I uh uh uh a lot of a lot of a lot of things that the jury may may may have heard that was favorable to me, their their mind probably was already made up through the through through through the lies they was told. Through all the publications Yeah, and the bad publicity, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:08

Let's get into the false evidence, the fabrication and suppression. When did you first learn that the so-called getaway car was actually in police impound at the time of the murder?

SPEAKER_00: 11:21

Okay, that was when um uh I read the grand jury minutes. I read the people case against me, and they said that I used uh um uh a black Mossetti Benz, my my black Mossetti Benz, uh uh to commit the crime. You know, that I was a getaway car, and that everybody was supposed to ride back in the in in this car with me and after the after the shooting. But the car was actually sitting in the police town at the time of the shooting.

SPEAKER_01: 11:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:59

And this ties into your last question about, you know, uh being convicted by the media before I even went to trial because uh uh that report that the car was in the police at the time was was uh was was entered into evidence at my trial on from from from my lawyers and them, but I I doubt the juries even looked at it. 'Cause they would have looked at it, they would they would have seen that that's impossible for me to have com committed this um this crime, that car being a getaway car. But I I I doubt they they very seriously looked at that report.

SPEAKER_01: 12:46

So that was never brought up like during your trial?

SPEAKER_00: 12:51

The the the report was was what was into into evidence, you know, uh for my lawyer, like at the end of trial, he moved the police report into evidence. Now whether the jury seen it or not, that's that's another story. But uh was the report uh uh mentioned in front of the jury at trial? No. You know, it was like at the end of trial, my lawyer said, Your Honor, we like to move this report in, you know, and they moved the report into evidence. Whether the jury seen it, I doubt it because it was so many other pieces of evidence being submitted in, so that could have just, you know, fell through the cracks.

SPEAKER_01: 13:36

Yeah. What went through your mind when you discovered the prosecution hid the fact that a key witness lied to the grand jury?

SPEAKER_00: 13:47

That was that that was crazy there because we we we didn't find out about that until you know all through trial the the DA suppressed that from us. And what we found out about it was the day that the witness was about to testify, that morning, he turned that over to us. And then when we read it, we're like, okay, you know. And when the witness took the stand and he was questioned by the prosecution, he was only questioned about uh because I have two wrongful convictions. He was only questioned about the first wrongful conviction, the second wrongful conviction, no no questions was asked of the witness. And we we thought that was strange because he went to the grand jury and I got indicted on both wrongful convictions based on his grand jury testimony. So my attorney um uh when it when it was our time to cross-examine the witness, my attorney asked him that question about the the second wrongful conviction, uh, second uh uh uh murder wrongful conviction, and that's when he told us at trial that that he lied. You know, that he he he wasn't there and that he he he made he made all that up. No, I got it. You know, he he he he he made he made all all that up. So um um so but but we didn't know how he got that information until 2022. We found out that he learned about everything through Scott Seller. So, you know, uh once again, these are just all uh all the the the the shenanigans that the DA office was was was playing uh w w w with with us at trial.

SPEAKER_01: 15:57

Yeah. How did you react when you found out an eyewitness actually identified someone else and that information was buried?

SPEAKER_00: 16:08

Yeah. Once again, the the Brooklyn Day office did everything. I see, and this is the thing too, like, you know, uh uh uh they fast to throw Scarsella under on under the bus, you know. And and and and rightfully so, you know, but they have to be held accountable too for the things that they've done during my trial. So when when when for example the the finding out about the witness identifying someone out, the deal officer know about that. Though they claim that trial, your honor, we did not know about that. Impossible. You should have been if you didn't know about it, you should have known about it. Because the the the police, the detectives, they bring all the evidence to you. And then you, you know, and then not only that, you so you speak to the witness too. Even even if the the the detective don't bring you uh uh the that piece of information, you still get a chance to talk to the eyewitness. So um uh I was I was I was I I was shocked and I I knew I was doomed uh when I found out that the the w the witness I I identified someone else. And then at my trial, you know, even the the judge kind of like helped the D the DA a lot. He was a former prosecution, so he he helped the DA a lot because when that information came out at trial, uh I remember the judge saying objection over rule. But what's so what was so funny about that was no one objected. And when he said objection over rule, he said we're gonna take a 10-minute break. And then they rushed that witness out the courtroom. And then when the DA came back in after the break, hear your honor. I just like to uh put on record that uh we spoke to this witness in the hallway. That's another thing. This this was a sworn witness that was still on the stand, so they wasn't supposed to have no conversation with him out outside the courthouse. Everything's supposed to be put on record. But anyway, the DA came back in the courtroom and said, Your honor, we we spoke to the witness outside a Hardwalk hallway, and um uh we did not know about this this show off that he picked somebody else out, but we we believed that it wasn't Edmondson because he they was at the preaching at two different times. This was somebody else, and that was three days after the incident. And that was basically it. The the the judge uh offer uh a stipulation to us that he didn't want to um uh uh uh give us a new hearing, a new identification hearing. He said you want the stipulation or not, you know. So we was basically forced into a taking a stipulation. Basically what the stipulation said was that the person that he identified three days after the incident was not Edmundson. And that's how they put a band date on that.

SPEAKER_01: 19:30

Yeah. When you read Scarsella's fabricated police report today, what does that tell you about the integrity of the whole investigation?

SPEAKER_00: 19:40

Uh that it was uh uh everyone was involved from the day office to Scarsella because he had to submit this police report, you know, to to the DA office. And in the police report they say that the the the the witness uh in the photo ray the witness positively identified me but then when we read the well at trial when we hear the witness testimony he said that he did not tell that cop that he told the cop that he was not a hundred percent sure if that was the person but Barcella wrote in his report that the witness positively identified me and based on that report you know that gave the the the the uh uh the the DN the police uh of uh direct to arrest me for for for that crime and and and to put me into uh a lineup later on you know and and to indict me you know yeah two witnesses later recanted under oath what would you say to the jury who never got to hear those recantations I would say to to to the jurors that they should have they should have asked more for for for their taxpayers money. Um granted they they did not know that these these witnesses was lying but the the the laws say in in if there's a reasonable doubt okay you don't have to uh know the whole thing but if there's a reasonable doubt then you you you're supposed to return the verdict of of not guilty and there was plenty of reasonable doubt plenty of red flags even without the recantation it was plenty of of reasonable doubt and red flags so I I I I I I I believe the the jury's they they they should have asked more more more for the taxpayers money.

SPEAKER_01: 21:57

Yeah definitely another detective def confirmed misconduct in your case as well how did it feel knowing someone inside the system tried to tell the truth but wasn't heard okay I I I'm not sure who that person was but if if unless we're talking about detective investigator Joseph Ponzi.

SPEAKER_00: 22:26

And Joseph Ponzi he died from cancer uh but he he was trying to tell the truth uh um uh without throwing his friend Scarsella under the bus but the judge in two thousand twenty two uh tossed Garcella out of the room for trying to uh tamper with uh a witness at the hearing and what I mean by that is at the at the at the at the 2022 hearing the the the DA office called detective investigator Joseph Ponzi who was being treated for cancer at the time so we had to take his testimony from the hospital room and when the technician that morning was was uh putting everything together the sounds and everything he noticed somebody was in the room with with with the witness talking to him so he notified the judge so the judge looked at the screen and asked uh uh oh Mr. Pozi is there anybody in the room with you and he said yes and the judge asked him who and he said Scarsella so the judge told him you know let Scarsella know that that he's still a witness that he took an oath he's still a witness at this hearing and that basically he got like one minute two minutes to get out that room because you're not supposed to be sitting in the room with a witness that's about to testify uh uh uh that morning so it was obvious w why Scarsella was there to get their story together.

SPEAKER_01: 24:10

Yeah you want to hang up and call back sure all right all right the caller has hung up we're gonna take a brief intermission uh as you know baby Sam is currently incarcerated so he'll give us a call back and we'll finish the interview then conversation now right so I was getting to what was the hardest part about accepting that you might die inside prison for a conviction built on false testimony and hidden evidence.

SPEAKER_00: 24:54

Well um yeah I felt like the truth would never get out like you know I I would die in jail um so so with the truth. Uh and I still feel still feel like that today. I feel like I feel like they trying to silence me and and what makes you feel like that that they're trying to silence you because they they they they they reinstated the wrongful conviction and and and um and I had to come back to prison. You know so um uh I don't I don't think that the the the public know about the getaway car being in and and and the and the conviction so that they they reinstated was the conviction the wrongful conviction where the car was in the police cow that uh in 2022 the judge found uh uh the recanting witness credible uh the witness testimony was that uh he was fed uh uh uh disinformation about this this crime from Scarsella and his partner with what William Morris uh to suppress evidence uh that that the public don't know about so uh that's why I I believe that they they trying to silence me now for disinformation won't won't won't get won't reach the public.

SPEAKER_01: 26:32

Yeah what kept you fighting for three decades when every appeal kept coming back denied?

SPEAKER_00: 26:43

My promise to my mother and daughter you know I had a conversation with my mother before she passed away. She passed away like uh two years after my conviction and um thirty something years ago and the last conversation I had with her was she said sir you know um you have to find your way out. You know, you you you you're a good person and and and and but now you have to look out for yourself. So you have to find yourself I and I told her I will mommy I I I I won't stop until I I I I find my way out. And with my daughter, you know my daughter was very young once when I came to jail she was like a year. You know, but as she got older she started asking questions. You know w her mother couldn't hide from her no more that I was away in school or whatever. And so then the question started coming and so I started telling her that I'm I'm working on it. You know, I'm I'm I'm I'm in prison and and I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm working on uh my appeal and but my appeals kept being denied so when she would ask me I would just tell her I'm still working on 'em because I was still working on because the one was denied I was file another one. I just kept fighting and and kept fighting until um I think it was like in two thousand eleven with the Sandy Hook shooting. That's when I just, you know, fell to my knees and just asked God. And I just turned my life over to God and then I put everything in his hands.

SPEAKER_01: 28:38

And that leads me to this next question which is how did prison shape the man you became by year ten, year twenty, year thirty Okay well I was full of hopes and dreams when I first came to prison 'cause I was still young, I was in my twenties you know I w hold on one minute.

SPEAKER_00: 29:07

Yeah, I was I was still young and I was in my twenties so I at at at that age I just felt like okay you know some court is is is gonna see um uh um what was wrong with w with my child and and it's gonna be rectified you know but by year thirty my hopes and dreams was like full of despair and self-pity.

SPEAKER_01: 29:38

Yeah no I completely understand that what do people misunderstand most about serving thirty three years for a conviction built on prosecutorial misconduct well I think that had such evidence been been received at at trial like these recantations, these things we now know, I think the the the the verdict would have been totally different and it would have been in my favor.

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

You know, but you know a a lot of this evidence was suppressed at trial so we we didn't have it Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 30:24

Describe the moment the judge vacated your conviction what did that feel like for you?

SPEAKER_00: 30:31

Well I still remember that thing like if it was yesterday um I was very emotional you know uh but I had to be strong for my lawyer who kept hugging me so tight every time the judge spoke. So that was a a a a a a very, very uh happy moment for uh me and my family. What were the first things you wanted to do when you stepped outside as a free man after thirty three years well the day before uh uh day before I got released my little sister passed away and she was the one that uh she the one that had got me the investigator, had paid for the investigator and so I was looking forward to seeing her and then uh I find out the day before I come home that she passed away so I wanted to uh I definitely wanted to bury my little sister um when I got out. It was like a bittersweet moment. Um I wanted to visit my mom's grave site to let her know that you know uh I kept my promise you know uh which was her dying wish that I I find my way out. So I wanted to go back to her gravesite and let her know that. And um I wanted to hug my daughter and my sister you know without any guard telling me that you only get one hug per visit. So you know I I I wanted to I wanted to h hug them for as long as I can.

SPEAKER_01: 32:26

That's deep and and that's what I did. That's deep how did those three years of freedom reshape your understanding of yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 32:38

Uh I think no I don't think. I know it brought me closer to God and his plan for my for my path going forward you know um so I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm um but that's my faith now um you know and and and and I stand on that. I I I I stand on that. Even happening even after having to come back in here, I I I stand on my faith with God.

SPEAKER_01: 33:17

That's amazing. It's a beautiful thing. What did rebuilding your life look like family, community, purpose?

SPEAKER_00: 33:28

Well I I I had I I had to rebuild you know uh uh my family ties and as well as the community I left behind so that's the three years I was home that's basically what I was doing rebuilding my family ties and and and and the community that that that I came from doing whatever I can uh to help.

SPEAKER_01: 34:01

Yeah. Where were you when you learned the appellate court reinstated your conviction?

SPEAKER_00: 34:08

Uh oh I was home.

SPEAKER_01: 34:10

I I I was home when my lawyer uh uh called me and and told me the stunny news so uh I cried and and and I thanked him what was your immediate reaction after proving your case was tainted and finally building a life again well I was happy you know when when when my conviction was overturned because I felt like you know I I finally got my day in court you know and uh I couldn't wait to rebuild my life.

SPEAKER_00: 34:47

Yeah so how did you explain that to your to your daughter and your family after they watched you come home and heal well that was hard especially for my daughter who grew up in visiting rooms uh and and and my my granddaughter she still know she she thinks uh I'm in Florida you know her mother told her that I was I was in Florida and so hard that when I talk to her now you know uh uh her mother told me how she followed the weather report in Florida and so when I I talked to her she was like Pop Pop you know um it's supposed to rain in Florida or they got a storm coming in Florida so it breaks my heart.

SPEAKER_01: 35:40

Yeah definitely do you believe the appellate court truly reveal reviewed your evidence or simply protected the original conviction?

SPEAKER_00: 35:54

I think they they they did review the evidence. I think they protected the original uh um conviction because um they they they they they couldn't have reviewed the evidence because the car like I said the the the the the getaway car was sitting in the police panel at the time of of the crime and the Supreme Court found the prosecution witness to to that murder unreliable and unworthy of belief. So they they they couldn't have reviewed the evidence and yes I believe that they just wanted to protect the conviction.

SPEAKER_01: 36:32

Yeah. After three years of real freedom living, breathing rebuilding what did it feel like to walk yourself back into custody knowing exactly what kind of conditions in reality waited for you inside well I felt scared you know I I'm just gonna say like that I f I felt scared.

SPEAKER_00: 36:57

I I didn't know what to expect.

SPEAKER_01: 36:59

You know, with the prison conditions um had gotten worse and I I was now a little older um I believe I ate I yeah I ate my last supper that night uh shower in the morning said goodbye to my family I I never saw my friend again that's crazy did turning yourself in feel like the system was demanding you sacrifice your life a second time it sure it sure feel that way especially after the system omits game stinks and then find a way to reclaim it yeah what was the hardest part of that walk mentally spiritually emotionally I felt like my faith I felt like my faith uh was being tested you know and and and I still feel that way like my faith is being tested but I'm I'm gonna I'm going I I stand with God you know I I I'm I'm I'm fully committed to him you know and and and and his promises. In that moment did you feel abandoned by the justice system or betrayed by it?

SPEAKER_00: 38:30

Yeah, yeah absolutely because when when when the judge vacated my conviction in twenty two and uh twenty twenty two i i it was an acknowledgment that justice had failed. You know and and that should have been where this story ended, you know, a man wrongfully convicted by the system, given a chance to start his life all over and and live in peace. So absolutely I felt abandoned.

SPEAKER_01: 38:58

When you were home were you on parole um in two thousand twenty two?

SPEAKER_00: 39:09

Yeah when I went home? No, I was out on um I was out on bail. Yeah it gave me a bail. So for those three years I was out on bail I had some some restrictions you know and some conditions but I was I was out on a a pill bar.

SPEAKER_01: 39:33

So your case wasn't fully overturned?

SPEAKER_00: 39:37

It wasn't fully overturned. What what they did was they vacated to my conviction and ordered a new trial and that's what we that's what we was asking for. We was asking for a a new trial and after a a a evidence hearing where the judge sits and listens to all the evidence in the case you know, he ruled that I deserve a fair trial based on the newly discovered evidence uh uh uh and based on the the the witnesses at at the hearing. And uh so after that one once the judge vacated my conviction, the the the DE office basically have three options after that. They could uh retry me, which the judge gave them that uh to retry me or they could dismiss it or they could appeal it. They chose to appeal uh a 33 year old wrongful conviction so they appealed it and you didn't get a f uh uh another trial no I never got I never got another trial so how does that work well the way it worked is they they appealed it the the appellate division uh agreed partially with them at least to reinstate one of the wrongful convictions and um and retry me on the on the on the first wrongful conviction which I I understand that they they um they they dismissed that wrongful conviction that they won't be retrying me on that wrongful conviction so let me ask you this in all of your years of being in prison of being incarcerated have you ever heard of that happening to someone else not not me I I I've I haven't heard that because I'm gonna tell you why because both wrongful convictions uh it's almost like a soda bottle soda inside of a bottle and uh and the soda is the wrongful conviction you know so the the the soda that's inside of wrongful conviction they both come out of the same bottle but the the courts will the the the the the television uh uh was able to reinstate one and basically dismiss the other or basically tell them to retry me on the other one so and we talk about the the same witnesses for for for both room for conviction the same uh uh crooked cops Garcella and his partner uh for the same murder and then we also have the court in 2022 uh uh uh declaring their witness the prosecution witness unreliable and unworthy of belief you know but yet the appellate found a way to reclaim it and I I I don't believe that they found a way I think what what what what they did was illegal I think they they they they overstepped their boundaries because when the the lower courts decide a case when they look at all the evidence they in the best position to uh see the witness demeanor to to to listen to the witness to ask the witness questions the television they don't have the luxury of that they just have the record in front of them like the transcripts from that hearing and based on the transcripts from that hearing you know uh uh uh uh they reinstated and and I I shouldn't even say based on the transcripts of of that uh of that uh hearing but they reinstated my my role for conviction um uh overturning the fact finding credibility uh determination meaning the court in twenty twenty two that vacated my conviction they they are the fact finder he found the prosecution witness to be incredible and unworthy of belief and then you have the television overturning that yeah that's unheard of I've I've I've never heard of anything like that ever dealing with uh the prison system but let's move along what do you believe your case says about the crack era convictions that are still standing today I think they need to I think they need to well I think they need to look into those cases because there it was a lot going on back then where you had you know uh the the Texas blank Scott Seller who was not solving cases he was closing them by any means necessary and he was using unreliable witnesses to to close these cases like prostitutes uh crackheads uh the worst of the worst is people who we later on finding out that they were sent this information that they don't even they they never do the victim and and in some cases yeah the cases were manufactured right you know and then also they need to they need to take a look at Charles Hines Brooklyn D office who's basically running this this this this thing from a a hotel uh uh we find out later on like they would take these unreliable witnesses like prostitutes and and and and crackheads and knew that they couldn't just serve them with a subpoena because they wouldn't show up so they would put them in these hotel rooms for like three days to dry them out, clean them up and then bring them to court to testify against us.

SPEAKER_01: 46:04

Yeah that's crazy that's that's the basis of manufacturing cases yeah how many men do you believe are still sitting in cells because of misconduct like what happened in your case?

SPEAKER_00: 46:19

Oh man my my my guess the number is staggering unfortunately you know um it I I I re well just looking at just the Scarsella cases man those numbers are are are wild but you know you have people that didn't have Scarsella you know um that got that got caught up back then during that era.

SPEAKER_01: 46:50

Yeah definitely Scars just one of many right if you could say one thing directly to the Brooklyn's DA office what would it be?

SPEAKER_00: 47:04

I would say that if justice still means anything in New York, DA Gonzalez has a choice I mean he can stand with the community that elected him and demonstrate it and demonstrate that true justice is about fair outcomes or he can just let the system you know take his course and once again you know um prove that titles and appearances do nothing but change the reality of of our communities, you know, black and brown communities. You know so um that's what that's that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01: 48:05

Yeah. What message do you want people to understand about cases tied to Scarsella in that era of policing?

SPEAKER_00: 48:14

Well basically what I said before uh which is you know that that they were also tied to Charles Hines booked the DA office. I mean they they was partners in this they was cohorts co a a a cohort uh cohorts yeah cohorts yeah you know they was acting in concert with with one another there's nothing Scarsella did that the DA office did not know first yeah definitely they was working hand in hand yeah your petitions your petition has thousands rallying behind you what does that support mean after three decades of being silenced I mean the world for me I'm telling you I'm humbled by it all you know and and and overwhelmed by by by by the support you know God is good I I I put him first and and I allow him to to guide me and and and and to have his way with me and and to have his way with uh of my petition.

SPEAKER_01: 49:24

Yeah definitely what do you hope people understand when they read your petition and your story?

SPEAKER_00: 49:33

Well you know like I said earlier you know uh the system will find a way to reclaim it after they they they'll make their m their mistakes and I'm I'm a living example of that.

SPEAKER_01: 49:51

Absolutely if the public could pressure one single action what should they demand from New York State complete accountability and transparency to the families of of Scarsella victims that's that are still behind bars today. That's powerful if you had one message for the world about your life your case your fight what would it be well I would say if my life case and fight proves anything I hope it proves to young people and this is important that that life is what you make it stay in school be kind to one another listen to your parents and put God first after everything you've survived do you still believe justice is possible and see this goes this question goes back to to my faith I believe everything and I mean everything is possible through God including justice absolutely and one one final question what what is your message for the youth and the people listening to this interview well like I like I said I would tell the youth that you know the the the the the graveyard and the prison yard is is full of fictional characters. I mean not fictional characters but characters with uh uh uh uh fictional names like Scarface and Frank White and Nino Browns and so I would tell I would tell the youth that to be kind to one another to to to stay woke stay woke stay in school um uh uh uh listen to your parents and don't be fooled don't don't be fooled by by by by uh by the movies that that helps influence some of our decisions even by some of the the the music you know uh and just remember that these movies and music is just for entertainment purposes only you know so uh that that's our message to to to the youth be safe love one another be kind and put God first absolutely baby Sam thank you for your honesty your strength and your willingness to speak on a system that tried to erase you your story is more than a case it's a mirror held up to the justice system in New York to everyone listening if you care about justice about fairness about the truth go read the full article on lftgradio.com and sign the petition demanding accountability and a full reinvestigation stand with baby Sam the link will be linked into this interview this is Elliot Carter reporting live from the gutter where the truth still matters good morning and Godspeed signing out